Estes ou fustes, d'effet ou de volonte, putes
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| - | [[Jean de Meung]]. 3 | + | "'''Estes ou fustes, d'effet ou de volonte, putes'''" is a [[antifeminist]] line of poetry by French author [[Jean de Meung]] written in [[Roman de la Rose]] which translates as "women every one are, or have been, mere whores, if not in deed, then in desire."(''[[On ladies who make love and their cuckolded husbands|Lives of Fair and Gallant Ladies]]'' by [[A. R. Allinson]]) |
| - | Now this poet in his [[Roman de la Rose]] did write these | + | |
| - | words: Toutes vous autres femmes . . . | + | |
| - | [[Estes ou fustes, d'effet ou de volonte, putes]]. | + | :Et font charmes et sorceries, |
| + | :Et tant d'autres grans déablies, | ||
| + | :Que nus nes porroit recenser, | ||
| + | :Tant i séust forment penser? | ||
| + | :'''Toutes estes, serés, ou futes, | ||
| + | :De fait ou de volenté putes;''' | ||
| + | :Et qui bien vous encercheroit, | ||
| + | :Toutes putes vous trouveroit: | ||
| + | :Car qui que puist le fait estraindre, | ||
| + | :Volenté ne puet nus contraindre. | ||
| + | :Tel avantage ont toutes fames | ||
| + | :Qu'el sunt de lor volenté dames; | ||
| + | :L'en ne lor puet le cuer changier, | ||
| + | :Por batre, ne por ledengier; | ||
| + | :Mès qui changier les lor péust, | ||
| + | :Des cors la seignorie éust. | ||
| + | ==Notes on provenance of this line == | ||
| + | La réponse que fit Jehan de Meung aux dames de la Cour, offensées avec raison d'une sentence si injuste, est tirée d'un livre italien, intitulé: ''[[Cento novelle Antich|Cento novelle Antich. A Guilielmo di Bergdam]]''. C'est le Guilhem de Bargemon, gentilhomme et poète provençal du temps de [[Raimond Béranger]], et par conséquent plus ancien que Jehan de Meung. Jean de Notre-Dame a fait mention de Guilhem ou Guillem au chapitre 48 des poètes provençaux. | ||
| - | (Ye women every one are, or have been, mere whores, | + | Le mot, que l'on donne à l'un et à l'autre, est une imitation un peu forcée de celui de J.-C. pour sauver la femme adultère. (Voyez le [[Menagiana]] de 1715, tome IV.)''[[Roman de la Rose (Pierre Marteau edition of 1878)]]''[http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17140/17140-h/17140-h.htm] |
| - | if not in deed, then in desire.) | + | |
| + | ==In Brantome== | ||
| + | :Toutes vous autres femmes . . . | ||
| + | :[[Estes ou fustes, d'effet ou de volonte, putes]]. | ||
| + | |||
| + | (Ye women every one are, or have been, mere whores, if not in deed, then in desire.) | ||
| + | |||
| + | Brantome remarks that: | ||
| + | |||
| + | :"By these verses he did incur such ill will on the part of the [[Court ladies]] of that day, that by a plot sanctioned of the [[Queen]] and with her privity, these did undertake one day to whip the poet, and did strip him stark naked. But as all stood ready to strike, he did beseech them that at any rate the greatest [[whore]] of all should begin first. Then each for very shame durst not strike first; and in this wise he did escape the whip. Myself have seen the story represented in an old tapestry among the ancient furnishings of the Louvre. | ||
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| + | [[Category:Dicta]] | ||
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"Estes ou fustes, d'effet ou de volonte, putes" is a antifeminist line of poetry by French author Jean de Meung written in Roman de la Rose which translates as "women every one are, or have been, mere whores, if not in deed, then in desire."(Lives of Fair and Gallant Ladies by A. R. Allinson)
- Et font charmes et sorceries,
- Et tant d'autres grans déablies,
- Que nus nes porroit recenser,
- Tant i séust forment penser?
- Toutes estes, serés, ou futes,
- De fait ou de volenté putes;
- Et qui bien vous encercheroit,
- Toutes putes vous trouveroit:
- Car qui que puist le fait estraindre,
- Volenté ne puet nus contraindre.
- Tel avantage ont toutes fames
- Qu'el sunt de lor volenté dames;
- L'en ne lor puet le cuer changier,
- Por batre, ne por ledengier;
- Mès qui changier les lor péust,
- Des cors la seignorie éust.
[edit]
Notes on provenance of this line
La réponse que fit Jehan de Meung aux dames de la Cour, offensées avec raison d'une sentence si injuste, est tirée d'un livre italien, intitulé: Cento novelle Antich. A Guilielmo di Bergdam. C'est le Guilhem de Bargemon, gentilhomme et poète provençal du temps de Raimond Béranger, et par conséquent plus ancien que Jehan de Meung. Jean de Notre-Dame a fait mention de Guilhem ou Guillem au chapitre 48 des poètes provençaux.
Le mot, que l'on donne à l'un et à l'autre, est une imitation un peu forcée de celui de J.-C. pour sauver la femme adultère. (Voyez le Menagiana de 1715, tome IV.)Roman de la Rose (Pierre Marteau edition of 1878)[1]
[edit]
In Brantome
- Toutes vous autres femmes . . .
- Estes ou fustes, d'effet ou de volonte, putes.
(Ye women every one are, or have been, mere whores, if not in deed, then in desire.)
Brantome remarks that:
- "By these verses he did incur such ill will on the part of the Court ladies of that day, that by a plot sanctioned of the Queen and with her privity, these did undertake one day to whip the poet, and did strip him stark naked. But as all stood ready to strike, he did beseech them that at any rate the greatest whore of all should begin first. Then each for very shame durst not strike first; and in this wise he did escape the whip. Myself have seen the story represented in an old tapestry among the ancient furnishings of the Louvre.
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